Crawl Space Ninja Show
Welcome to "Healthy Home ABCs with Michael Church," where we dive into the essentials of improving indoor air quality. Learn practical tips for fixing your attic, basement, and crawl space to create a healthier home environment.
Crawl Space Ninja Show
From Damp Misery to Comfortable Living: One Homeowner's Crawl Space Journey
What happens when your brand new air conditioning system struggles to maintain comfort in your home? For Chad in Michigan, the culprit was hiding beneath his floors—a crawl space with humidity levels reaching 78%, creating that persistent "clammy cool feeling" throughout his living space.
This episode takes you through Chad's remarkable DIY crawl space transformation journey. Despite being new to crawl space renovation, Chad tackled this challenging project systematically, starting with a dehumidifier installation and progressing to a complete encapsulation. He shares honest insights about the difficulties of working with vapor barriers solo, the importance of mechanical fasteners and proper sealing techniques, and the dramatic difference a professional crawl space door makes compared to his original makeshift entrance.
The before-and-after contrast is stunning. We explore how Chad converted a space with disintegrating plastic barriers, loose insulation, and significant moisture issues into a clean environment he can now enter without respiratory protection. Chad's candid discussion about using spray foam insulation for rim joists, proper ductwork treatment, and moisture monitoring systems provides valuable guidance for homeowners considering similar projects.
Beyond the technical aspects, Chad reflects on the tangible improvements in his home's comfort, the unexpected challenges he encountered, and which investment decisions provided the greatest return. His story demonstrates how addressing the often-overlooked crawl space can resolve persistent comfort issues that even new HVAC systems can't fix on their own.
Ready to transform your crawl space and dramatically improve your home's comfort? Listen now and discover practical insights from someone who's successfully completed the journey.
Check out Michael's book, "Crawl Space Repair Myths-Busted" now available on Amazon!
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Okay, so I have Chad here, from the great state of Michigan and you know little known to me. A few years ago I didn't realize Michigan had a very many crawl spaces. I thought it was mostly basements and slabs, but you do have quite a few crawl spaces in Michigan and Chad. I appreciate you sharing your journey to fix your crawl space with us on this video. So about when did you start the project and what made you decide, you know, to actually fix it? What was some of the triggers that you decided, hey, I need to take care of this.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, Thanks, Michael, Thanks for having me. I would say about a month now is when I initially started and basically we had a new central air put in. The humidity has always been high in this house it's a high water table where we live kind of in the country and it was struggling to get the relative humidity below, I don't know, 58 to 56 percent. You know, even cranking the air, and then I sampled in the crawl space at a few different locations, crank in the air, and then I sampled in the crawl space at a few different locations and it was averaging as high as 75 to 78 percent. You know, and that's when it corresponded well with your Fourth of July sale. Yeah, that's when it began. I've been looking at the site for a long time and the timing just worked out.
Speaker 1:All right. Well, I've got this image up here of the before and and you know I appreciate you sending these to us. These are, these are very powerful. It looks like it was in, you know, pretty disarray. Uh, this, uh. Now I see that you did have a vent sealed. Is this, uh, was this already sealed, or is this something that you sealed and then took the before picture?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so this specific before picture. So I did do this project in phases, after reaching out to the Crawl Space Manager customer service just asking if that would be OK. Again, it was all new to me. I did watch hours of videos. So in this specific picture I already have the Aprilaire EO80. As you can see, the discharge line going to the sump and I put that vent block in. So this is basically nothing done. I just installed the dehu to get the humidity under control.
Speaker 1:That's great. That's great. That's a good first phase. I tell people all the time. You know, if you can't do anything or you're limited on what you can do, a dehumidifier is always a good first step. The only way I would have a second step to that is if you have a lot of standing water. A dehumidifier and a sump pump would be a great first step if you have a lot of standing water. I know you do have some issues with flooding in this crawl space that we'll get into here in a minute but it doesn't look like it was flooding to the point to where it could have compromised the dehumidifier. Is that correct?
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, it wouldn't really flood so much. I mean it does have a sump and perimeter drainage to the sump, but the sump would run a lot and just the humidity was out of control. You can see, like I hadn't touched anything in this crawl space there was several loose-laid barriers and there would be moisture in between them. Old trim pieces scattered around, just lots of stuff, insulation that was holding moisture, that was what I started with.
Speaker 1:Speaking of insulation holding moisture, I'm guessing this R-19, or it looks like R-13, bad insulation they put around the ductwork. I'm sure it was probably holding quite a bit in the summer. Is that correct?
Speaker 2:Yes, yeah, and then just the atmosphere down there, right. So to work, I had four air scrubbers going. So for anyone not familiar with an air scrubber, it looks like a shop fan, almost like a turbocharger, but it generally has a pre-filter like a Fertus filter, and then a HEPA filter, and I had four of them going just to keep the fiberglass under control as I was working, because there's so much of it.
Speaker 1:So were you noticing any air quality issues up in your living space? Is that what made you tackle this? Or you just knew that this would help fix, or at least prevent, foundation problems in the future? What was your motivation, I guess, for getting going?
Speaker 2:You know it was the humidity, because even with you know, the brand-new AC unit, it was always like a clammy. Even with you know the brand new AC unit, it was always like a clammy cool feeling, you know, and it just would never get, no matter how low you put it. You know, relatively, you know we didn't put it down to 40, but even at, say, 70 or 68, yeah, it was cold, but it was like a damp cold, it was just uncomfortable.
Speaker 1:Oh, that's a good point. Um, I appreciate you raising that, because part of the job of the hvac unit is to remove humidity. But if there's so much that it can't get a hold of that and it looks like the wood is in pretty good shape, I don't know if you had to do a lot of mold treatment on the wood, but apparently you got to this before it got too out of control on the mold side yeah, I did notice it dramatically went up this year.
Speaker 2:I don't know if I don't know the reason of it. Honestly, some of that loose weight barrier, um, it was almost disintegrating. I noticed over the we've been here seven years, um, and some of the pieces I would grab and they would just almost turn to dust, so to say they would just into nothing. And this was the year I knew we had to do something about it because it was the most noticeable upstairs. Even with a new condensing unit outside, it just couldn't keep up with the amount of moisture in the air.
Speaker 1:That's great. This is the last before I'm going to show and then we'll start to get into some of the work you did. This door looks pretty gnarly.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that came with the house. This door looks pretty gnarly yeah that came with the house.
Speaker 1:That's right. That's right. Is that duct tape, your attempt to make the dehu work better? Is that what that is?
Speaker 2:That's exactly right. So there was never duct tape there, it was just a board with you could see that rock that would hold it to keep critters out. But once I had the dehu in there, you know I wanted to keep my conditioned air in there. Um, but once I had the dehu in there, you know I want I wanted to keep my conditioned air in there. So just as I was going in and out and working on this in phases, I would reduct tape it. I'd reduct tape that probably 40 times.
Speaker 1:I bet your your soil also looks pretty sandy. Is that pretty common in your area to have that? Type of soil Is that.
Speaker 2:Yes, very sandy, very soft.
Speaker 1:Yeah, us, us clay guys, we're jealous of that kind of soil. I got to dig the hard stuff. It's not.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:All right, so let's get into some afters, and what I'll do for the viewers I showed you three before is I'm going to show you an after to the first picture and then I'll put those pictures side by side. So here's the after to the first picture. Let's talk about this one. It looks like you did a little bit of foundation repair, maybe you had a little post-check there.
Speaker 2:I didn't see that in the before picture. Is that correct? Yeah, so there actually was a post-check there. Just at that phase I had taken it out, but I had noticed from the humidity everything on the post-check started to have surface rust and it was kind kind of binding up. So I just replaced it with another one, tried to put the same tension on it. You know I it looked like they had they have a double beam there, um, so they had a board that wasn't in that great of a shape, so they double beamed it and then put the post jack.
Speaker 1:So I just put a new jack and then, uh, new wood underneath it very good, very good, and I would encourage I don't know what you use and I'm not calling you out for anything, but I would encourage this to be a cap block or pressure-treated wood, just in case you get some kind of moisture trapped underneath this wood. It's a good idea to have that there, so it looks like it's a pretty good, stable piece of wood. But that's a good thing to do, and let's go ahead and show the side by side here, so that way our viewers can see what it looks like. A picture's worth a thousand words. Man, you did a fantastic job on this. Tell us how hard was this to do?
Speaker 2:This was. I mean. I like to DIY stuff to an extent. I know my limit and this was at the limit. I did this 99% by myself. I was fortunate enough to have my neighbor. I did the pillars, the walls and then the ground plastic. My neighbor helped me just stretch out the large piece of ground plastic that went from the wall piece through where these pillars are. But besides that I did everything on my own. It is extremely difficult to roll with that plastic. I did use butyl tape mechanically fastened with ram sets, and then I also used an adhesive below the butyl tape. My suggestion to anyone trying it would be pay a buddy or a second set of hands when you're working along the wall. It is worth it. It would have helped out tremendously.
Speaker 1:That's great. Now, I always recommend that. Butyl tape is a great set of hands. Not as good as a buddy, obviously, but it does assist. Is that a true statement, or am I overselling the butyl tape? A little bit of hands. Not as good as a buddy, obviously, but it does assist. Is that a true statement, or am I overselling the butyl tape a little bit?
Speaker 2:No, it does, because you can even just stick it forward a foot or two or your arm span. You can kind of work at shaping the plastic down. And then I actually used from a floor installation. I had a little J roller and I would then J roll onto the beetle tape and then J roll the adhesive.
Speaker 1:That's a great idea, and I appreciate you telling us about the Ram set. That's something I overlook. Ram sets can be great. They're limited. Normally they're a single shot. Unless you get, I think, they do make a multi shot and they can also sometimes be quite powerful, so they have to be backed down a little bit. So I've seen them break some block. Did you have to do that to back yours down in order to make it work?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I was using, for the foundation was going through the recommendation on their site. It was the brown load. That's the issue with it is they're kind of inconsistent, right the powder loads, you know, one shot's perfect, the next one it's driving it into the butyl tape too much, the next one it doesn't sink it all the way. So the washer isn't tight. If I were to do it over again, I would spend the extra money to rent the Hilti gun. It was a significant cost, but the reload time on the ram set doing it by yourself it added a significant amount of time to do everything.
Speaker 1:Well and even worse is the Tapcon with the hammer drill. That even adds more time than the Ramset.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:So yeah, I appreciate this. Let's go to the slide that shows now. We didn't get a real good picture of the after with the insulation on the ductwork, but I wanted to show that you did take the insulation off the ductwork. And then was this already on there, or did you add this?
Speaker 2:uh, this installation uh, so I actually redid that. So there was reflectix on there, but it was just flush touching the ductwork, so that it's not finished yet. But that is using a one inch spacer to create an air gap all the way along the ductwork. Good idea. Yep, and's partially done, but that's redone right there, the main trunk where it comes down the supply.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and for those of you that don't know, this foil type ductwork let's say it's an R5, that one inch air gap can, depending on the manufacturer and how much air space there is, you could raise it quite a bit. You could get that R value up quite a bit. So that's what it means by that tape that raises it off of the ductwork. Am I explaining that correctly, chad?
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, and in my case I actually found they sold their plastic spacer that already has an adhesive on it and it actually has a lip. So if you put it like on the bottom of that supply duct right at the bottom, it would create one inch below that. So when you wrap the insulation under it, it's one inch coming down and then one inch going underneath it. So it actually works pretty well.
Speaker 1:So this compared to a fiberglass duct work. What are your thoughts?
Speaker 2:That one, one million percent. It's the mess. You don't have to use a respirator, I mean.
Speaker 1:I take my shoes off and I go down there. Now you probably don't even do that to go in your house Is?
Speaker 2:that right.
Speaker 1:Depends on the day. That's right. So let's show the before and after again. Fantastic job, really great. I I don't know, uh, you know, if anybody's giving you any kudos on how well you did, but I'm giving you some. You did, you did a wonderful job.
Speaker 2:So appreciate it, michael.
Speaker 1:Thank you very nice, very nice, and I like your, uh, your triple leds. These things are pretty cool too. They shine in three different directions. Or is that a quad? Is that right? Is that a triple?
Speaker 2:yeah, I think it's a triple. Um, yeah, where did the I had? Uh, you know, I was just ordering packs of light bulbs and it's really easy to break those off your head uh which you will do so as you're dragging heavy stuff and uh, yeah, it's easy to break them. But yeah, they're just a triple led lamp.
Speaker 1:Amazon auto parts store, home d, they're all over the place, you know so so put the old light bulbs in while you're working is that what you're saying? And then put the new ones in after you're done. Is that right?
Speaker 2:yeah, I would recommend that. Yeah, and I I didn't have lights when I started this project, so, uh, I did run uh, some 12-2 and put in eight lights and then a dedicated 20 amp to the DU. That's great.
Speaker 1:All right, so let's cover the door. This looks like a fantastic door. Just curious is this a door you built or is this a prefabricated door that you installed?
Speaker 2:So it's a prefab. It's from Kaffner Crawl Space Doors. It's a second door. We had a little mix up on the dimensions because that's a full inset door. Doors are new to me. I don't do doors for a living foam that slides fully in the opening. You shim it and then secure it. They include tap cons. I secured it with healthy concrete anchors and then, you know, spray foamed around the inside.
Speaker 1:That's great, and say that manufacturer again. We've been trying to hook up with a door manufacturer for a while. We just haven't had a good opportunity. So let me share again, Chad, if you don't mind the name of the door.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no problem. The manufacturer is Cathmer C-A-T-H-M-E-R Crawl Space Doors and that actually has a channel on the left-hand side, so the door slides in and then it's magnetized. I did add latches after just for a little bit tighter fit, but it was pretty good the way I had it.
Speaker 1:Very good. And did you have to add insulation? I would assume too. Or did you insulate it at all or have to air seal it at all? How does it come?
Speaker 2:So the door itself it has, it's gasketed, so it's air sealed. And then, and then you know, obviously spray foaming around, uh, you know where you shim it and secure it. I ended up changing the gasketing material that came with it to something a little bit thicker. Um, theirs was like 90 percent there. Uh, there was just a few gaps that the magnet wasn't strong enough to pull it to close. So I added a thicker gasket and then just latches and you can't see any light. It's completely airtight.
Speaker 1:Very good. Any tips on the measuring? You said you had a little issue with the measuring. Is it measure twice, cut once? Scenario.
Speaker 2:Is that what?
Speaker 2:happened, Right yeah normally I'm pretty good at measuring, but it was more so just a miscommunication on the difference between a full inset door or a partial. So a partial would be like hanging out and it would have trim that would go against the house and in my application how that is receded in it just wouldn't work. So probably a little bit on both, but they stepped up and made it right. I actually have the original door sitting right here. They sent me a brand new one, you know with the adjusted measurements. You know they took care of the freight everything. So that was pretty stand up of them.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's wonderful. Well, kudos to them. All right, we've got two more slides to show for everybody. This is your. You said this is the E80. Is that right? Yeah, all right. So tell us a little bit about that. So you got it ducted. Why did you decide to duct it like?
Speaker 2:that To push a little bit more it's actually fairly deep after that dehumidifier just to push it more around, not to make like a complete circle, and then also to quiet it down. I don't have any insulation on my floors right now so you could hear the unit through the HVAC, not so much through the floor but the HVAC vents. You would hear it. The vents quiet it down like 80.
Speaker 1:It's substantially quieter oh wow, great, great are you? Do you have plans on putting subfloor insulation, or are you going to leave it the way it is?
Speaker 2:I haven't decided. I don't know how much longer we'll stay here at least a few years, um, but I've looked at it.
Speaker 1:You know, I haven't decided yet I'd say it depends on how cold this winter is coming to right, you get cold in michigan. We'll see all right sub pump, some pump, pretty standard install. Looks like you got your condensate line going in there and it looks like you've got a little uh, moisture meter right there. Is that what that is? Uh, just almost out of frame, is that right?
Speaker 2:uh, a water alarm. Yeah, so that's just's just three of them down there. They're Wi-Fi, so that way if I'm not home it just lets me know. Hey, there's water I do need to put in if I'm saying it, right, the drain. Help me out here, michael, the drain.
Speaker 1:Yeah, the drain it would go in one of these pre-cut holes. Basically, if Chad's crawl space ever gets standing water from a pipe leak, it helps to get that water into the sump pump is what it's designed to do, so it's not a sealed system on the top. Yeah, those are very popular and good for basements too. You don't want to create a sealed sump pump basin to where water can't get into it, but the Dranger Drain allows water in without allowing soil gases to escape, so it's a pretty nice little deal there. I'll put a link to that down below in case anyone wants to check it out. Anything else on this one Looks like you got a flex line going out the foundation. Is that going underground to the outside?
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's pretty deep below gray. That's the original line. I would say it's probably original to the house. The house was built in 91. That's probably going to be due to be replaced. It could be replaced now but it's working. There's no leaks. It does go out to the ditch. From what I've seen the installations here versus watching on your channel most of them go below the frost line. Here that might be different. Again, I'm not a professional at this, but from the pictures and videos I've seen of companies up here, most of them go below the frost line out to a ditch.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'd say that's a good idea in your climate here, not needed as much. I mean, it's very rare for us to get below freezing for very long, especially as much water as they're pushing. It's like a stream. It's not going to freeze that going into a sump pump like you did, or again below the frost line outside. Normally the d he won't kick on that much in a real cold climate because you probably are fighting too low a humidity. I would say yes in the winter time.
Speaker 1:Um, but just in case it does like, for example, if again a plumbing leak happens, uh the d, you could try to dry the air, and if you've got it above the frost line, it could kick on and then freeze up that condensate line. So just some of those things to think about. All right, we got another one. This is your insulation of your rim joist and your sill, uh sill plate. You did a great job here as well. Uh, tell us a little bit. Uh, right here on the sill plate, in case you can't see where I'm pointing you put what is that? Spray foam?
Speaker 2:Yep, that's just with a Pro-Can. There were gaps where it was starting to come up and really just following around. Really big gaps, you know, I guess from the house settling, you know, I'm not really sure, but I did want to fill them in at least to keep, you know, critters out.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and check with your pest control company if you all decide to do this. Some pest control companies do not like that seal, but what that does for Chad is it helps minimize the amount of moisture coming between the block wall and the seal plate, minimize the amount of moisture coming between the block wall and the sill plate so that his dehumidifier runs less and it obviously stops air movement and things like that. So I encourage you to do it. You can also use caulk if that's easier. Not everybody's as handy with the spray foam gun as you do, because right there on that rim, joist man, you did that and it looks beautiful.
Speaker 2:So I don't know what you do for a living.
Speaker 1:Uh, you can probably easily become a spray foam contractor if you want I'll keep that as a backup. I appreciate it and I also see you uh, air sealed the duck. Uh, the boot around the duck. Good job there too. Is that already done, or did you do that as well?
Speaker 2:no, yeah, I did that. Um, I did that previous to that. And then the rim Joyce is that's just the Dow froth pack. Um, and I had read a lot of negative reviews on them and I was like the quotes I would I received were just too high to swallow. Um, so I just picked one up and that was the end result.
Speaker 1:Well, I don't know what the reviews are, but it looks like it worked well for you. Any negatives that you found using that Dow froth pack I hear anything from a lot of VOCs to the mixture doesn't do well. Any issues that you experienced using it.
Speaker 2:The temperature of the tanks is extremely important. You have to let them stabilize. That's what I read when I was researching. The downside is it's extremely messy. So if you were going to do it, I would do it before you encapsulate, because it does, it drips, it gets everywhere. Fortunately for me, it was on the old clear, loose-laid plastic, so it just came right out and that worked out well for me.
Speaker 1:And every manufacturer has their own temperatures, but I believe it's like above 65, below 90 is optimal. Does that seem about right from what you read, or am I saying that incorrectly?
Speaker 2:I recall it was something like that in the application range and the actual tanks have like a stick-on thermometer. Probably not super accurate, but I just let them sit in the garage. It's usually about 68 in here, 70. I let them sit in here for a few days to stabilize and I didn't have any issues, you know.
Speaker 1:And to be clear, you did that in the summer, is that right?
Speaker 2:Yes, yeah, okay, that was done in June.
Speaker 1:So in the winter you're going to have a lot more problems if you use froth packs in the wintertime. Yeah, Absolutely, Chad. Listen, this is great information, great pictures. As I mentioned before, I'm bragging on you again. You did a fantastic job. Really appreciate you joining me on this video and sharing your experience with those out there that want to do their own crawl space. Any last tips or words of encouragement for our viewers before I let you go.
Speaker 2:I appreciate it, michael, thank you. Just watch the videos. I mean, mine did not turn out perfect. I think to achieve what you see on the Crawl Space Ninja page would be very difficult on your first time. You're not going to get those perfect seams, perfect tape lines, but I think that's okay, you know. But if you watch the videos, ask a few questions. I did have a consultation with Michael, which was invaluable to me because I was able to get his advice on my specific crawl space, um, and he gave me some tips that saved me a lot of time, um, so I would highly recommend that as well.
Speaker 1:Well, thank you.
Speaker 2:Thank you for saying that, and all the products were purchased um through Crawl Space Ninja. Uh, the Sump's been good, the Jackal Basin, the Aprilaire EO80's been good. As I said earlier, it's really not that noisy of a unit. It's just where I have it. Sitting, is right below an HVAC run and sound resonates through that. It's very energy efficient too. It only runs about 450 watts when it's on, so it's not bad.
Speaker 1:Oh, wow, that's great, well, good news and again, thanks again for joining us and hope you all make it a happy and blessed day and we'll see you later.