Hydraway transforms sports fields and homes with superior drainage technology.

The hidden force behind professional sports fields' impeccable playability isn't just meticulous grounds keeping—it's revolutionary drainage technology. This fascinating conversation with Hydraway specialists reveals how flat-panel drainage systems are transforming everything from Major League Baseball diamonds to golf courses and residential yards.

Hydraway vs other waterproofing and drainage products video: https://youtu.be/lIz4wQXsW54?feature=shared

When torrential rain threatened the iconic Field of Dreams MLB game, Hydraway's drainage system proved so effective that groundskeepers were mowing the outfield the very next morning. This remarkable performance stems from a fundamental design advantage: traditional perforated pipes offer only 6% open area for water intake, while Hydraway provides an astonishing 80% void space, dramatically accelerating water removal.

Chuck, a 30-year veteran golf course architect, explains how this technology addresses persistent challenges for golf course superintendents. Beyond superior drainage performance, Hydraway installations require significantly less disruption to carefully maintained turf. Rather than wide trenches filled with problematic pea gravel, Hydraway can be installed in narrow 4-6 inch trenches and backfilled with coarse sand—preserving landscape aesthetics while preventing the "striping" effect common with traditional drainage systems.

The versatility of this American-made product is particularly impressive. Available in both 6-inch and 12-inch widths for various applications, Hydroway can be installed either vertically to intercept surface water or horizontally beneath features like golf course bunkers. This flexibility has led to adoption by prestigious clients including Toronto Blue Jays, University of Missouri, Philadelphia MLS, and numerous NFL training facilities.

What makes this conversation particularly valuable for homeowners is understanding that the same technology trusted by multimillion-dollar sports venues offers an affordable solution for residential drainage problems. The principle remains consistent across applications: efficient water management begins with removing water quickly before it can cause damage.

Ready to explore how professional-grade drainage solutions might solve your property's wet spots? Connect with the experts at DIY.CrawlSpaceNinja.com to learn more about bringing this field-proven technology to your home or business project.

Chapters

• 0:00 Introduction to Hydraway
• 3:19 Golf Course Drainage Applications
• 8:24 Field of Dreams and MLB Installation
• 12:21 Hydraway vs. Traditional Drainage Systems
• 19:49 Practical Applications and Installation Process
• 24:54 Major Projects and Cost Effectiveness

Transcript

Michael Church: 0:00

Hey everybody, michael Church here with Crawl Space Ninja, and welcome to another episode of the Ninja Podcast. Today I'm going to be joined by Joe, bill and Chuck of Hydraway, an innovative company that's changing the game when it comes to drainage solutions. We've got a jam-packed episode ahead where we'll be diving into the. Hydraway is used in everything from residential yards to basements and crawl spaces, all the way to sports fields and even the iconic Field of Dreams. We'll also be talking about how Hydroway doesn't hold water it moves it, and how that makes a huge difference compared to traditional systems. Plus, it works without aggregate, which saves time, money and a whole lot of back-breaking labor. And hey, if you're like me and your golf skills are questionable at best, having a dry golf course might finally give us weekend hackers a fighting chance. Stick around as we explore how this affordable and easy-to-install system is helping prevent striping on lawns, keeping sports fields in top shape and protecting homes across the country. Let's get started. So tell me a little bit about what you do exactly.

Chuck: 1:16

I work for Hydraway and I am implementing the product into the golf line. We are exploring options on how to get more golf courses to use Hydraway as a supplemental drainage system to drainage systems they already have. So who I'm trying to work with the most is the golf course superintendents, because they manage the maintenance of the golf course. So drainage is a big part of any golf course. That's like my background is. I was a golf course architect for 30 years and and I also was a superintendent and I also built golf courses and in that experience I have learned that drainage is one of the most important aspects to every aspect of golf, from design to construction to managing and maintenance. So Hydroway is a great product because it's a supplemental product to the drainage that's already in the ground from the initial construction. But it dries up areas that constantly remain trouble spots.

Michael Church: 2:11

Well, I'm not much of a golfer but I have played on some really nice even private courses where they seem to have some kind of low spot where somebody like me who can't hit a golf ball and winds up tearing up more of the soil than hits the golf ball, could really use a dry ground to hit off of.

Chuck: 2:32

Yeah, and what Hydroway does? Is it really, once installed, promotes a more consistent playing surface. So the areas that you know fairway and all that, it's more consistent from a playability standpoint. So it really dries up some of these wet areas where water just naturally tends to want to stand.

Michael Church: 2:57

I wanted this to be more about the relationship between Hydraway and how it's used in sports fields as well. As you know, if these folks who manage these multi-million dollar sports fields are using Hydraway, then, you know, maybe a homeowner should consider taking a look at it for their foundation. So that's kind of what I wanted to show with this video. And there's Joe, so let's let him in. Hey, joe.

Joe: 3:14

Good morning, good afternoon, wherever you're at it's afternoon for me.

Michael Church: 3:17

I'm East, it's afternoon, are you Central?

Chuck: 3:21

Yeah, he's Central yeah.

Michael Church: 3:22

You guys in Caseyville yes sir, where are you at?

Chuck: 3:24

I'm actually in Branson Missouri. I work remote. Is that central? I assume Branson Missouri. Yes, yeah, yeah.

Michael Church: 3:29

Okay, all right, very good, so when we get done you guys can take a break and grab some lunch then, right? So that's the good news. Sounds like a plan, are you? I'm good? Good to see you, man, see you. I was getting to know chuck a little bit and telling him about my horrible golf shots and muddy golf courses. I mean, I'm bad enough whenever it's dry so I could see how hydro way could help somebody like me who can't actually play golf very well, do better. I remember doing this one shot and I I think there was more mud on the club than the club hit. You know, it was like it, like where did that come from? It was a divot. It was so big I couldn't even fix it, I just like snuck away.

Bill: 4:13

You just kind of snuck off the course.

Michael Church: 4:15

Yeah, I was like I don't know if anybody saw me do that, I just kind of left. So I think that was like my last. I had this time in my life where I wanted to learn how to play golf, because it seems like everybody in the business world plays golf Right and I was like you know, maybe I need to learn and I got so mad. I was just like you know, I don't need this kind of frustration in my life. I just I just quit. I. I. I had like a really nice set of clubs. I bought like expensive set of clubs, lost a ton of money when I sold them on Facebook marketplace and I was done and I've been happier ever since.

Bill: 4:50

So those of you that have learned how to play golf.

Michael Church: 4:53

I have a lot of respect for you. I really do. So anyway it's not something I can do, all right, so let's get into it and we'll just like pose some questions and some things that I've been curious about with Hydroway. Over the years, I've heard a lot of rumors, and you all are the ones to confirm these rumors, right? So the first rumor I heard is that Hydroway was used in the Field of Dreams field, which was the movie that Kevin Costner made. Is that correct that Hydroway was used in that field?

Joe: 5:22

Yeah, so Hydroway was the only flat panel drain specified and approved by major league baseball for that field. So it is the most televised major league baseball game to this day. And in that field the major league baseball wanted to put hydroway in a horizontal application on a natural field because it's a high performance sand based field. So they dug one inch trenches, laid Hydraway and then put the root zone, sand mix and root zone on top of it to establish that root zone mix. That was a mixture that they did and in doing so the day before the game they had a substantial amount of rain three to four inches of rain the night before and they were cutting the grass the next morning and in doing so, in center field is the pump station for the drainage, and hydroway removed so much water they actually had to put in a second pump station behind the first base dugout.

Joe: 6:10

So it's pretty unique application. It was one of the first that they did in the high performance sand base fields where they actually it's this. It's just a shallow trench where hydroway lays in and your compression strength allows for the mowing and the turf and it establishes about a six inch root zone. Because major league baseball, when I work for the cardinals. The outfield grass is basically a little bit taller than a putting green. So the foot traffic and the cutting and it's.

Joe: 6:36

It's cut anywhere from two to three times a day and then it's rolled as well as you know your infield grass is a little bit shorter than your outfield grass, but yeah, it's cut two to three times a day and rolled well, and speaking of putting greens, chuck, you were.

Michael Church: 6:51

You and I were talking about how you know hydroways used in golf course application. Tell us why that's important to get this product out to other golf courses, sure.

Chuck: 6:59

So in golf courses. There there's subsurface drainage which goes in below a lot of the different features. So it goes in below greens and it goes into bunkers and that's a subsurface where it's trenched in below the engineered part of the green right. So the green is basically an engineered feature. It has a root zone that perks the water through to the drainage system. So Hydroway is a great fit and we're still exploring it in the use of putting greens and we're getting more traction in that direction.

Chuck: 7:30

But what I am trying to promote Hydroway in the golf industry more is for French drainage, where it dries up areas that typically stay wet and it's a different application. So it's a vertical application of the pipe instead of a horizontal application. And the advantages of that going in, especially on existing courses, is there is less disturbance of the actual course on install because you don't have to dig as wide of a trench to put it in because the product is only an inch wide. So you can dig a four to six inch trench instead of a backhoe bucket width. And the other advantage is that you can backfill with a coarse sand and you don't have to backfill necessarily with a pea gravel. With a pea gravel application, then that just creates more steps for the owner. They have to import pea gravel, they have to store pea gravel, they have to move pea gravel to the course. There's contamination because pea gravel gets into the turf and then the mowers can't mow correctly or it'll damage the reels on a mower. So there's a lot of disadvantages to using pea gravel and you want to try and avoid it if you can, and Hydro-A allows you to do that because you can use a coarse sand and if you spill coarse sand on the course it really doesn't matter because it blends into the soil. That's the advantage of the Hydro-A product.

Michael Church: 8:47

And I would guess using the coarse sand would help to anchor the Hydroway into the ground. Is that correct? As well as give it something for the grass or whatever you're going to put on top to grow?

Chuck: 8:58

Yeah, so it helps create that seed bed and that basically the root zone, so that when you reestablish the turf over the top it can grab into something a little bit easier and it allows the water to filter through quicker to get into the pipe. But the pipe, as we know, is designed for maximum capacity. You get about 80% flow rate into the pipe just because of the way it's designed, compared to a normal four-inch drain tile that's perforated where you know the water has to kind of go along the pipe and then seep into the pipe through the perforations, hydraway hits the pipe immediately in because there's that much more void space.

Michael Church: 9:32

Yeah, let's talk about that just for a second. I've read where, say, for example, some of these slit pipes, they only have about a 6% opening. So let's speak to a 6% opening, moving water versus an 80% opening. Joe, like you were talking about how the pumps couldn't even keep up. Now that may sound like, oh well, I don't want to install that because now I got to have pumps. But no, you're moving water. That's what you want, right. So could you speak on that for me?

Joe: 9:54

Yeah, so it's just the visual conception Round pipe versus a flat panel, four inch diameter versus an inch width. Hydroway is never going to hold water. It's going to remove water and when you have a slit slot hole theory, as you do in pipes, the water has to make its way down through the 8-inch, 10-inch trench and then get into those slit slot holes and there's only about a 5% open area. So for that water to get in there and then move out. Visually you know it's hard to see, but once you've done the testing and you've looked and researched it, those slit slot holes can get clogged with sediment and everything else, or Hydroway doesn't.

Joe: 10:31

Hydroway is a cavity system. It's going to allow the water to drain through all sides so it doesn't have to go around the pipe and seep in. It's going to go through our pipe to a point to where it can't drain anymore and when it does and it starts to come back up, it hits our system and immediately, on all sides, exits to your collector system, where a round pipe has. It builds up and it gets the, the pressure I say pressure, the water pressure that gets into the hole and then moves it out. It just has a bigger area to hold water.

Joe: 10:56

I don't want to hold water, I want to move water. What you get most of your problems on a natural turf field is from standing water, and that standing water is because it doesn't percolate through the pipe or hydro way. We have an 18 to 28 inch per hour per square foot perk rate and that's why we allow for the clean core sand in the USGA standards at 0.2 millimeter to 0.5 millimeter, which is basically a pea gravel. It allows that water to go through the system and then our system captures that water at a point to where it can't drain anymore and moves it out.

Michael Church: 11:25

Well, and that's a good point, I've done a lot of videos over the years and you all did a video, and I've done a video where I showed a perforated pipe compared to the Hydraway and how much water it moves. So if any of you are watching this video, I'll put a link to one of those down below. But, chuck, what Joe said and what you hit on a minute ago it just brought up to my mind about. You know, not only are you having to use a bucket size width to install these perf pipes size width to install these perf pipes, but when you talk about a four inch perforated pipe, you're probably talking about another six inches of aggregate and filter socket, everything else around there, not to mention the fact that somebody is going to have to drive that backhoe across that lawn and the tracks are probably going to destroy it. And I can see HydroA being installed with maybe a ditch witch or something small like that. Is that correct? That's exactly right.

Chuck: 12:11

And from a golf course perspective you know they spend so much time maintaining and perfecting that turf that the less damage they can do, the better off. They are. Right, you don't want to have to go back in and repair. The other advantage of Hydraway is just the quickness of the install. So you have less downtime. Right, because you're not having to repair as much and you're not having to, you know, grow in as much turf because you're not disturbing as much. You know the ideal install would be you take out a sod cutter, you cut a couple rows of sod out. Take your ditch witch out, you cut your trench. If the material is suitable, then you just backfill with that exact same material. So you're cutting out a lot of steps on the install process. That makes the whole process quicker because you're not having import material, you're not having an export material, you're not having to, you know, tear up a 20-foot width area just for equipment and all that aspect. So you're really minimizing your footprint.

Michael Church: 13:08

And some of you watching this video might be thinking well, why is Michael Church of Crawl Space Ninja talking about golf courses and baseball fields? Well, you know our customers. Some of their yards look like golf courses and baseball fields. They take care of them so well that they don't want to. If they have a drainage problem, they don't want to get in there with a backhoe and destroy their lawn. So this could even be a lawn application, and if one of you want to speak to that as well, that'd be great. As far as using it for a personal residence and how well it can do and where, you would install it so in a French drain application in a residential landscape.

Joe: 13:42

You're going to address it in the low-lying or the standing water areas and with Hydraway you can trench it in just a four-inch trench, you know, seven, eight inches deep and you can reuse the spoils. We don't need the aggregate in a French drain application to install Hydroway. Then you can put your sod rack back over the top of it. There's not going to be any disruption to your yard or to your business or whatever the case may be. But one of the things that you brought up earlier was with aggregate. And here's a cool, cool thing. I did some research a while back on aggregate in the hydro way world. In the drainage world they use number 57, which is a three-quarter inch clean stone, and from our home right here in caseyville, nine hours away in in louisiana, a yard of number 57 stone in louisiana is 110 a yard and illinois is 10 a yard so if you do the math, you're going to use round pipe versus hydro, a lot of rock versus no rock.

Joe: 14:34

That's in the case of synthetic fields and anything, because people are trying to say that number 57, stone is a drainage system. But yeah, it drains water. So what are you going to do after a couple of years, when all those fines make their way down and now your void area is diminished? Where does the water go? It's going to go up, right, it's going to push everything up to the top. So it's just educating people just on the importance of Hydraway, how simple it is and how powerful it is when it removes water. It's an easy install. Two guys can roll out 150 foot roll in 15 seconds.

Michael Church: 15:01

Wow, and there's quite a bit of weight to a bucket of three quarter inch stone. And that was one of the things that really attracted me about Hydraway in the crawl space application is, you know, you're looking at anywhere between two to four feet of space and traditional pipe install required us to put that three quarter inch stone around that pipe and trying to maneuver in and out of a crawl space with all that stone and still not even being as effective. After all that labor, it's basically from a work comp perspective. It's probably saved us because you could throw out a shoulder, you could hurt your back or whatever trying to crawl in and out when, like you said, hydraway, you just roll the stuff out. We use a trencher, an electric trencher, inside the crawl space to create kind of like an electric handheld ditch which and that way it saves us labor and time, and then we just put the Hydraway in there and it's a great install from that perspective. So I appreciate you bringing that up too.

Michael Church: 15:59

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Joe: 16:36

So this is a conversation that we had yesterday and, if you think about it, the you know perf pipe, four inch round pipe, has been around for many, many decades. Right, but how many times have a natural turf installer or synthetic turf installer, a landscaper, a golf course? They're always trying to reinvent the wheel because they're trying to find the way that it's going to work the best. Well, guess what? They still have yet to find the best way. Hydroway, simple. It's a four inch trench. In a natural field, it's 12 to 14 inches deep. In a landscape application, you know, six to nine inches deep.

Bill: 17:06

It's simple it's never going to change, don't have to reinvent the wheel.

Joe: 17:09

We don't have to come up with different ideas on how to move water. That's just some things that people, it's just an insight that people can think about and it just goes along with how simple and easy of an installation it is.

Chuck: 17:19

Yeah, and I'm going to add on to that just a hair. In a golf course application, a lot of the drainage issues come from where they have put round pipe in with gravel around it. The water gets to the gravel and then it runs along the side of the pipe until it can seep in. Right, what ends up happening is 50, 60 feet down the line that water hits a resistance and it pops up, especially in a rain event, especially as the rain is happening and that's where the damage comes from in storms is and you wash out drain lines. It's because it's getting so much water so quickly that it's not absorbing into the pipe as efficiently as it should. Right, with hydro way, you don't have that issue, and that that's the advantage of the 80 percent void that allows that much more water in. So you're taking care of that initial rainfall event and then any residuals are automatically going in as well.

Michael Church: 18:15

Very good. Well, I just want to clarify two terms that we use a lot that maybe someone listening may not know. Aggregate Joe's already explained what that is. It's basically just rock or pea gravel or even, in some cases, styrofoam that could be used around the pipe to give the pipe more surface area and then spoils. That's something. When I first heard I was like what is spoils right? So basically, spoils is the dirt that you excavated. So instead of Mr Jones having to worry about what am I going to do with this big mound of dirt, you just put that dirt back in over the hydroway. Is that right, joe? Is that what you're saying?

Joe: 18:43

Correct. You fill it up around the sides, put it back over the top and then you can reuse the cut sod that you've already done. And another cool feature of Hydro is because of the way it's installed, you don't have to worry about striping, and people are going to say well, what is striping? So when you use a round pipe, the trench is eight to 10 inches wide and, however deep they put it, you have the possibility of striping. And what that does is when you lay that sod back over to the top of it.

Joe: 19:07

So you've got your green grass and you're going to see a yellow line. That yellow line is because it doesn't establish a healthy root zone, because it's such a big area and you have all of that aggregate around it to maintain the green grass. I'm not saying it's impossible, but you're going to have striping. So we see it a lot in natural turf fields. When they do a reno, they'll do a drone footage of it and you'll see the the yellow stripes and that's where they've laid the pipe which can actually happen in golf courses, too.

Chuck: 19:32

With the backfill in golf courses, after you put the pipe in, you're going to create a new root zone. What you need to do is make sure that that has organics in it as much as you can and is consistent with everything else that's around it, and that way you avoid that striping that we've been talking about.

Michael Church: 19:46

Very good, chuck. I heard Bill talk about I think it was Bill or maybe Joe talk about Hydraway and how unique it is to use around a bunker. I have spent a lot of times in bunkers in my golfing career so I'm very familiar with them. But how is Hydraway particularly used and how do you see it be an advantage around a bunker where other installation or other pipes may not be as good?

Chuck: 20:10

Well, Hydroway has a couple of different applications. In bunkers, you can put it under the sub base of the bunker and it's going to carry more water, which is a great thing, which takes that you know, contamination factor out of the equation, because sand gets contaminated not only from the lip of the bunker around it, but it also gets contaminated from the bottom up. If you have water, it's drained through the sand and it's working its way down to the pipe and the gravel that it's in starts working its way up through the sand, especially when it's completely like a rain event or completely saturated. So with Hydraway, you're eliminating that water from standing there and creating that contamination from the bottom Hydroway you're eliminating that water from standing there and creating that contamination from the bottom.

Chuck: 20:50

On the outside of the bunker you can actually use it vertically and kind of mirror the shape of the bunker and that takes a lot of that surface water that usually would come into the bunker from the top. It gets it into the pipe before it has a chance to do damage.

Michael Church: 21:04

So there's a couple of different applications. Very good, Joe. I assume Hydroway comes in more than just the waterproofing sizes. Are you using different sizes of Hydroway in different applications?

Joe: 21:14

We offer a 6-inch and a 12-inch product. Our 6-inch product is used in residential crawl spaces and basements, as you well know. It's also used in golf courses and fairways and aprons and approaches. It's also used in natural turf fields and it's also used in landscape and park and wrecks. In the French drain application. Our 12-inch product is used mainly in synthetic turf. It also can be used in a putting drain. It's used in shotcrete walls, highways, a strip drain. That's what it was invented for.

Joe: 21:42

The other thing too is with our 12-inch product, we've seen it used in natural turf fields and when you do that, just the depth of it is a little deeper. It's 18 to 21 inches deep and you always want to put it above your irrigation lines. Any application where you have a natural turf field golf courses, natural turf fields, whatever it may be you always want to put it above the irrigation lines and you always want to allow that. You know 6 to 8 inches for that healthy root zone and people always want to allow that. You know six to eight inches for that healthy root zone and people are going to ask why do you put it above the irrigation line? If the irrigation line was to break, the water is going to go up. When it goes up, rises up, it's going to hit the hydroway system and then move out to the collector system. So it's just small little things that you can educate people on why we do the things that we do.

Michael Church: 22:23

And again, just a simple, easy install. Well, and you threw out a lot of potential customers that I assume Joe and Chuck and Bill you guys are trying to talk to, so let's go over those again. You talked about municipalities. That would be someone local, city, county, state, municipalities that are building roads and highways, and those would be a good referral source or someone who you'd like to talk to about that. Is that correct?

Chuck: 22:45

We want to get to the source of who is specifying product for projects. That would be a huge advantage if we could get into the specifiers' hands. Specifically, from a golf standpoint, there's the superintendent, there's the contractor, there's the architect, and those are the main people of focus. There's also the supplier or the distributor. So, we're trying to work with those folks so that they can be a distributor for us, so that we're in the game as well.

Michael Church: 23:11

Well, and anybody watching. Reach out to us here at Crawl Space Ninja and we'll get you in touch with these guys too. Just go to diycrawlspaceninjacom and we can hook you guys up. The other thing I wanted to ask you about is what type of service. Like you mentioned, you want to talk to this group, but I assume the contractor, for example, might need a little bit of help on the install. So do you all help them with that? Do you teach them how to do that or have some kind of way to communicate?

Chuck: 23:38

with the contractor after the salesman made it. So we basically have a specification that we will write for an architect so that they can put it in their spec manual. And those spec manuals get very detailed as far as installation processes. That's one way, but the other way is just to reach out to them individually or as a group and say, hey, this is the product and we can do pro day or lunch and learn or offer any of those opportunities as well. For education.

Michael Church: 24:02

Very good, Joe. Do you have anything to add to that?

Joe: 24:04

Yeah, just educating your general contractors with the specifications from the civil engineer, the landscape architect. Like Chuck said, we can do those with pro days or lunch and learns. But one of the most beneficial things is when we're at the sports builder shows. There's a handful of chapters and you can actually talk and go over the product with them and then that leads to a lunch and learn or a pro day. I think it's very beneficial when you're in front of just the audience and you're the only product there and you can get their undivided attention and have a powerful presentation and you can get them to interact. And once they understand the labor savings and the easy install and just the knowledge of the product, it starts to turn some heads and you can quantify that from a revenue perspective.

Michael Church: 24:50

Can you all share with us maybe some of the names of the brands that are recognizable that Hydraway has worked with in the past? I know we're talking about golf courses. We talked about the Field of Dreams field. Are there any others that you're allowed to tell us about?

Joe: 25:02

Sure, we just did the Big River Runs project in Alabama. It's a very high-end sports complex for the youth. We've done the Toronto Blue Jay Spring Training Complex. We've done the University of Missouri, along with thousands of other D1 schools, but here locally we've got the University of Missouri, we just did the Philadelphia MLS, along with the St Louis City practice fields, and then we've also done the NFL training facilities, some of the ones we did the Rams here in St Louis City practice fields, and then we've also done the NFL training facilities, some of the ones we did the Rams here in St Louis when they were here in St Louis. So those are some of the higher ones that we've done, along with thousands of K through 12 schools as well.

Michael Church: 25:39

Well, I'm glad you brought that up, because a lot of people are like, yeah, the St Louis Rams can afford whatever right. So let's talk about that for just a minute. Afford whatever right? So let's talk about that for just a minute. The affordability of this product is very good. Don't just look at the price of the product. Look at the labor involved, installing other products that we've talked about. So even from a homeowner perspective, or a small high school, middle school perspective, small municipalities, this is certainly an affordable product that they can get. Is that correct?

Joe: 26:06

That is correct and you know, from a residential perspective, knowing that your local high school, your local college, trusted Hydroway to use it in their fields or their business, that makes them feel like, okay, well, if they trust Hydroway, then I can use that in my yard or my home or my business. So that's one of the cool things about Hydroway that it can be used in many verticals, as we call it. But it's also knowing where it's been installed and the transfer of trust that we have with the civils and landscape architects and general contractors. You know, knowing where our product has been put and how it's been installed Great information.

Bill: 26:39

I would say, michael, that ultimately, the big differentiator between Hydroway and round pipe is the inflow rate. It's not about moving water through the pipe, it's getting water into the pipe. So there's no other product on the market that does that better and so, integrated in all of these case studies and all these projects, the real differentiator is the fact that the Hydroway can receive water faster than anything on the market. That would be my one plug for the product.

Michael Church: 27:09

Okay, and Bill, if you don't mind real quick, there are some knockoffs out there. How does someone know a homeowner or a golf course or whatever? How do they know they're actually getting Hydroid? What makes your product distinctive to others out there?

Bill: 27:22

We have had a problem with companies knocking it off with an inferior plastic and that inferior plastic will degrade over time or the material is not properly attached to the plastic and on the outside they look very similar. So I guess it was probably three, four years ago. Maybe we took a step to wrap the product with a different color, so you'll actually see a white or a gray stripe and we call that salt and pepper. So we have the capability of wrapping it. It's exactly the same fiber, exactly the same wrap that we're putting on the entire material. It's just a different color, and that has eliminated a lot of the knockoffs in the past few years. I'm sure at some point in the future people will probably try to duplicate that because this product is a patented product and we have that patent goes well into the 2030s, so we'll still have some people try to knock it off, but we'll do our best to stay ahead of it and change things up like what we're talking about here.

Michael Church: 28:24

Yeah Well, I'm looking forward to you all coming out with the red and black Ninja version, so that's what. I'm looking for. So that's very good, and Bill again real quick. This is made in the U S, is that right?

Bill: 28:35

Tell us a little bit about this Made right here in Caseyville, Illinois.

Michael Church: 28:38

Very good. I've been to there, I've watched it being made. It's a pretty cool manufacturing process, so very good. And so we got a six inch or a 12 inch opportunity, depending on the application. It can either be vertical or horizontal again, depending on the application.

Michael Church: 28:55

So it's a product that can be very diverse in how it's installed and everything else. Is that right, gentlemen? That's correct, all right. Well, I appreciate all three of your time today and just look forward to this video coming out so that if anybody watching this video has some questions, I'm going to put a link down below to contact us if you're interested, either for your local high school or your local municipality or, who knows, maybe you manage a big facility that you need some help with drainage or something like that. So, appreciate you all gentlemen doing this with me, and I'm Michael Church with Crawl, space Ninja and these folks here at Hydrowraway, and we hope you make it a happy and blessed day and we'll see you later.